After about ten years of developing a career as an independent classical recording engineer ( mainly in my small studio - which has dry acoustic conditions as well as few concert recordings in halls - chamber and solo music, and orchestral recordings) I am finally confronting a major production of an album with the ICO ( Israel Chamber Orchestra) including Mendelssohn's two piano concertos and the 1st symphony. The pianist and conductor are Israel's top performers and have a successful international career.
First I would like to describe in detail all the technical considerations (including the hall and orchestra, the music, my equipment etc.). Then I would like to propose a few microphone positions, and I will be happy to hear any comment or idea relating to the mikes proposed setups. Please forgive me for this long & detailed post - however I thought I needed to provide all the background details in order to clarify the problems:
Technical background:
The orchestra is Israel's chamber orchestra, and the hall is probably Israel's best medium sized hall - The Recanati hall in the Tel-Aviv Museum of art. The recording will be done in 2 concerts, plus 2 backup sessions without audience. The hall is one of the best chamber recording venues in Israel, with a warm and clear acoustics, RT is quite short. In all past recordings I added reverb - audience were present and it is not possible to hang hall mikes ( unfortunately in this recording I will also need to work in concert conditions with audience and I can’t place a far stereo in the hall).
The stage is not deep enough to provide distance between the main mics and the orchestra, and the piano will probably be placed very near the edge of the stage. I plan to put the main mike stands in the path between the 1st row and the stage, and since this path is no more than 1.30 -1.50 meters, the stand's legs will be as close to the stage as possible. The result is that the mikes starting point will be too close to the musicians. I plan to use special stands that can be angled a bit backwards, so up in the air the mikes could be backed off about a meter from the stage.
The music is as classical and transparent as could be - Mendelssohn...
My arsenal of mikes is:
2 Neumann's M 150
3 cmc 5 schoeps mic amplifiers with a variety of optional capsules:
2 mk2H ( omnis with a slight HF boost ).
1 mk2S ( omni with even more HF boost ).
2 mk8 ( fig of 8's).
I also have 2 Schoeps CCM 5 (small independent switchable omni / cardiod).
2 QTC 40 omnis and 2 AKG 414.
These will be more than enough for my proposed 8 track recording.
Preamps are all transparent (Schoeps, Millenia, Integrity 2).
AD Converter is Prism Dream ADA.
Recorder is the JoCo Blackbox multitrack HD recorder.
Recording will be mixed later in my control.
Proposed microphone positions:
Option 1 (probably my 1st option):
3 mikes array:
2 M 150 in wide AB plus Schoeps MK2S (with an KA 50 cap) in the center above the piano. A possible variation to the center mike would be to add a fig of 8 above the center mk2s - this will provide the option of changing from the 3 mike array into a double stereo ( narrow and wide) during mixing, or at least a bit widening of the center stereo ( and the piano).
I will appreciate your comments relating to this variation.
Of course if I add the fig. of 8 above the MK2s I will need to take the cap off from the mk2S.
All main mikes about 3-4 meters in the air and backed off the stage by a meter, angled down towards the rear of the stage.
2 QTC40 as piano spots about half a meter back from the opening (narrow AB spacing or XY probably looking inside the piano opened wing).These will provide a little edge or articulation if needed.
2 mk8 (schoeps) as woodwinds pair on tall stands - looking down and spoting the WW only or possibly a wider area in the center stage including the violas as well ( I guess this is might be dangerous since the ww will not be completely isolated...please comment about that as well… )
1 more mike left here - possibly an AKG 414 to spot the timpani.
(Alternative) Option 2:
Main pair: 2MK2H on the Schneider disc (OSS) flanked with 2 M 150's wide AB a bit closer to the edges of the strings on both sides.
This is also a good option, The OSS is a very natural sounding stereo array and it provides a nice “ovalic” stereo picture in the center, also since MK2H will be used in the OSS and the M 150’s for the wide stereo the piano will sound natural "nested within" and not overpower the orchestra.
This leaves 4 tracks of spots - the center stage above the WW could be taken with an MS pair or ORTF cardioids a and again 2 QTC40's to spot the piano).
The textbook states a general rule when using OSS with spot mikes - the spots should be delayed in relation to the OSS. Also here - I am interested if anyone has experience with the Schneider disc.
3rd option (probably least favorite):
Main mikes: 2 M 150 narrow AB in center stage and 2 Mk2h as flanks in wide AB.
2 M 150’s provide a great AB stereo pair, however in these tight stage conditions and the wide stereo being 2 MK2h’s ( unfortunately I don’t have another Mk2S capsule) the piano might overpower the orchestra and sound too centralized and not natural ).
Spots: again 2 QTCs on the piano and 2 mk8s on the ww.
I wonder if anybody can share his views in relation to the 3 proposed options. If you think another position might work better, please share it.
What would be you preferred position?
Please bear in mind that I will not have the time to experiment for the best position, and I will need to choose one option before the concert begins. Also there is no decent control room so I will probably stretch lines into one of the backstage rooms. My monitors will be 2 small genelecs coming out directly from the prism's monitor section.
Thank you for this wonderful forum, I enjoy it a lot.
Eyal Zaliouk (engineer / producer)
The Classical Studio
Herzlia / Israel
First I would like to describe in detail all the technical considerations (including the hall and orchestra, the music, my equipment etc.). Then I would like to propose a few microphone positions, and I will be happy to hear any comment or idea relating to the mikes proposed setups. Please forgive me for this long & detailed post - however I thought I needed to provide all the background details in order to clarify the problems:
Technical background:
The orchestra is Israel's chamber orchestra, and the hall is probably Israel's best medium sized hall - The Recanati hall in the Tel-Aviv Museum of art. The recording will be done in 2 concerts, plus 2 backup sessions without audience. The hall is one of the best chamber recording venues in Israel, with a warm and clear acoustics, RT is quite short. In all past recordings I added reverb - audience were present and it is not possible to hang hall mikes ( unfortunately in this recording I will also need to work in concert conditions with audience and I can’t place a far stereo in the hall).
The stage is not deep enough to provide distance between the main mics and the orchestra, and the piano will probably be placed very near the edge of the stage. I plan to put the main mike stands in the path between the 1st row and the stage, and since this path is no more than 1.30 -1.50 meters, the stand's legs will be as close to the stage as possible. The result is that the mikes starting point will be too close to the musicians. I plan to use special stands that can be angled a bit backwards, so up in the air the mikes could be backed off about a meter from the stage.
The music is as classical and transparent as could be - Mendelssohn...
My arsenal of mikes is:
2 Neumann's M 150
3 cmc 5 schoeps mic amplifiers with a variety of optional capsules:
2 mk2H ( omnis with a slight HF boost ).
1 mk2S ( omni with even more HF boost ).
2 mk8 ( fig of 8's).
I also have 2 Schoeps CCM 5 (small independent switchable omni / cardiod).
2 QTC 40 omnis and 2 AKG 414.
These will be more than enough for my proposed 8 track recording.
Preamps are all transparent (Schoeps, Millenia, Integrity 2).
AD Converter is Prism Dream ADA.
Recorder is the JoCo Blackbox multitrack HD recorder.
Recording will be mixed later in my control.
Proposed microphone positions:
Option 1 (probably my 1st option):
3 mikes array:
2 M 150 in wide AB plus Schoeps MK2S (with an KA 50 cap) in the center above the piano. A possible variation to the center mike would be to add a fig of 8 above the center mk2s - this will provide the option of changing from the 3 mike array into a double stereo ( narrow and wide) during mixing, or at least a bit widening of the center stereo ( and the piano).
I will appreciate your comments relating to this variation.
Of course if I add the fig. of 8 above the MK2s I will need to take the cap off from the mk2S.
All main mikes about 3-4 meters in the air and backed off the stage by a meter, angled down towards the rear of the stage.
2 QTC40 as piano spots about half a meter back from the opening (narrow AB spacing or XY probably looking inside the piano opened wing).These will provide a little edge or articulation if needed.
2 mk8 (schoeps) as woodwinds pair on tall stands - looking down and spoting the WW only or possibly a wider area in the center stage including the violas as well ( I guess this is might be dangerous since the ww will not be completely isolated...please comment about that as well… )
1 more mike left here - possibly an AKG 414 to spot the timpani.
(Alternative) Option 2:
Main pair: 2MK2H on the Schneider disc (OSS) flanked with 2 M 150's wide AB a bit closer to the edges of the strings on both sides.
This is also a good option, The OSS is a very natural sounding stereo array and it provides a nice “ovalic” stereo picture in the center, also since MK2H will be used in the OSS and the M 150’s for the wide stereo the piano will sound natural "nested within" and not overpower the orchestra.
This leaves 4 tracks of spots - the center stage above the WW could be taken with an MS pair or ORTF cardioids a and again 2 QTC40's to spot the piano).
The textbook states a general rule when using OSS with spot mikes - the spots should be delayed in relation to the OSS. Also here - I am interested if anyone has experience with the Schneider disc.
3rd option (probably least favorite):
Main mikes: 2 M 150 narrow AB in center stage and 2 Mk2h as flanks in wide AB.
2 M 150’s provide a great AB stereo pair, however in these tight stage conditions and the wide stereo being 2 MK2h’s ( unfortunately I don’t have another Mk2S capsule) the piano might overpower the orchestra and sound too centralized and not natural ).
Spots: again 2 QTCs on the piano and 2 mk8s on the ww.
I wonder if anybody can share his views in relation to the 3 proposed options. If you think another position might work better, please share it.
What would be you preferred position?
Please bear in mind that I will not have the time to experiment for the best position, and I will need to choose one option before the concert begins. Also there is no decent control room so I will probably stretch lines into one of the backstage rooms. My monitors will be 2 small genelecs coming out directly from the prism's monitor section.
Thank you for this wonderful forum, I enjoy it a lot.
Eyal Zaliouk (engineer / producer)
The Classical Studio
Herzlia / Israel